If you actually proved me wrong and I haven’t responded, it’s probably because I didn’t get to a particular issue, yet. Sometimes it’s not worth the effort to comb for your statements that don’t involve mischaracterizations or logical fallacies. By the way, I’m not saying you are illogical. It may be your intention to respond fallaciously. People sometimes use fallacious arguments because sometimes they escape notice and appear to win arguments at the surface.

It’s not hypocritical as long as you accept that Ron Paul deviates considerably from current “conservatives” in policy and spending; and that Democrats have their share of contributions to our financial troubles.

“Do you at least agree that anyone moronic enough to DENY evolution (like Huckabee) is simply too much of a moron to be president? (or too controlled by Pat Robertson to be president)?”

For the most part, yes. I think we can make exceptions to people who are willing to examine the evidence, however. I’m not sure Huckabee would ever do so. Whereas, I think Ron Paul might actually be trying to be neutral about evolution.

//”Actually, I was offended by FOX News’ distortions of Obama’s childhood”

“Distortions”? They were outright LIES. Why make it sound better than it was?”//

Not necessarily. Obama did grow up in Indonesia, so I can’t call that a lie. Instead, I can infer from the tone of the reports that it was intended to suggest something negative. However, many of the things they reported about Obama were blatant lies. I don’t mean to diminish what FOX News did. I’m just not going to engage in an absolutist statement saying it was all a complete lie as that would be strictly inaccurate. Though I can agree that it could be characterized overall as a lie.

“The problem you made for yourself when you hurled that term is that “partisan” has two meanings- one positive and one negative. Did you mean “a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person? Or did you mean “one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance” Do you admit that you were, at the very least, unclear?”

I meant the later. Sorry if I was unclear. However, I’m beginning to sense that perhaps I was too harsh in my judgment, as you are, on occasion, willing to make more subtle distinctions instead of only absolutist statements about Republicans.

None that I am aware of. If they come up, I think you would agree that they deserve to be considered.

Ron Paul > Most Democrats > Most Republicans.

Remember, in recent history, a Republican-controlled Congress has FAILED to reduce the deficit except under divided government- when the president was that mighty deficit cutter, President Clinton. A Republican-controlled Congress under a Republican President FAILED to cut the deficit, especially when the President is one of the worst in history- Republican G W Bush.

So, on balance, the Democratic Congress has proved to be far better at reducing spending and reducing the deficit, because they could do it even when their party had total control of the executive and the legislative. Republicans failed to do that under six years of total control of the executive and the legislative. “

I agree. That’s why I will be voting for Ron Paul in the primaries. He is unlike any other candidate when it comes to spending.

“Distortions”? They were outright LIES. Why make it sound better than it was? I note that those character-assassinating, far-right talking points were recently echoed by Democrat Bob Kerry who also deserves rebuke, though he has apologized- unlike Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes.

7) Sand “I hate FOX News as much as Democrats and liberals do. So I didn’t miss any points.”

Yes you did miss the points. You missed the points made in post #90. I reposted those points in post #92, and reminded you that you missed those points. And then you responded to them, but claimed you did not miss them. Understand now? You’ve also missed points all over this partisan pro-Paul website, especially all the places where I PROVED YOU WRONG. Do I need to repost all those too?

Sand “What you wrote is completely irrelevant to anything I said.”

How?

9) Sand “As you can see, FOX News plays the same game that you do, they imply lies about Obama the same way you imply lies about Ron Paul.”

The problem with Fox News is not that they “imply lies.” The problem is that Fox News ACTUALLY TELLS LIES. Many of them. Constantly. Not the least of which is the lie that they are “fair and balanced” journalists when they are partisan propagandists and character assassins. Just like this very Website LIES when it claims to be “open-minded and neutral” but is really just a partisan pro-Paul site. Right?

10) Or, as you would call it, “partisan hackery.” Right?

11) And please point out all the “lies” I have “implied” about Ron Paul.

12) Sand “Last, but not least, the fact that you think I am partisan shows your prejudice.”

LOL. Did I call you “partisan?” Or did you introduce that term referring to ME? LOL! More of Sand’s psychological projection!

I believe I asked you what you meant by that expression when YOU accused me of it. Did you answer? No. You fled the discussion. Do you have an answer now?

13) The problem you made for yourself when you hurled that term is that “partisan” has two meanings- one positive and one negative. Did you mean “a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person? Or did you mean “one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance” Do you admit that you were, at the very least, unclear?

14) How did I prejudge you?

15) Sand: “As for (1) the Democrats you like have consistently voted for irresponsible spending, including the war and the Patriot Act, so it is hypocritical of you to criticize tax cuts.”

LOL! Mr. “formal logic” Sand FAILS to understand basic logic. Even if it is true that the Democratic congress has voted for irresponsible spending, how is hypocritical of ME to criticize the massively irresponsible budget deficit created by Bush and the Republicans AND RON PAUL?

16) And you are wrong again. I criticize wasteful spending from Democrats and Republicans alike. BUT- the Democrats have proven to be FAR MORE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE than Republicans.

Remember, in recent history, a Republican-controlled Congress has FAILED to reduce the deficit except under divided government- when the president was that mighty deficit cutter, President Clinton. A Republican-controlled Congress under a Republican President FAILED to cut the deficit, especially when the President is one of the worst in history- Republican G W Bush.

So, on balance, the Democratic Congress has proved to be far better at reducing spending and reducing the deficit, because they could do it even when their party had total control of the executive and the legislative. Republicans failed to do that under six years of total control of the executive and the legislative.

Republicans have proven to be far more wasteful than the so-called “big spending” Democrats, and Ron Paul deserves full criticism for exploding the Bush deficit with Republican tax cuts that have NOT BEEN OFFSET by Republican tax savings. Yes, Ron Paul voted against a lot of wasteful Republican spending. But where was Dr No when it came time to give away the people’s money to the wealthy and burden our children with crushing deficits? At the least, Ron Paul’s vote for unpaid-for tax cuts was very irresponsible. Couldn’t Ron Paul have voted against tax cuts for the wealthy until his fiscally irresponsible Republican leaders cut spending to offset tax cuts?

17) Sand: “As for (3) Ron Paul, that’s inaccurate. Ron Paul has simply said yes to the following question: “Will you encourage a more open approach to the presentation of scientific facts that contradict the theory of evolution?”That’s what any good science teacher would do. They would certainly discuss scientific facts that contradict the theory of evolution. That doesn’t mean Ron Paul promotes creationism.”

WHAT scientific FACTS that contradict the theory of evolution? Remember that pseudoscience does not count.

18) Do you at least agree that anyone moronic enough to DENY evolution (like Huckabee) is simply too much of a moron to be president? (or too controlled by Pat Robertson to be president)?

19) And how come you STILL FAIL to respond to questions about Ron Paul saying Bush should be impeached. So WHY DID RON PAUL VOTE TO PROTECT BUSH FROM IMPEACHMENT?

—–
ANY DEMOCRAT IS BETTER than Ron Paul in
1) ending the war AND
2) preserving abortion rights AND
3) protecting and strengthening Social Security instead of undercutting it.

As for (3) Ron Paul, that’s inaccurate. Ron Paul has simply said yes to the following question: “Will you encourage a more open approach to the presentation of scientific facts that contradict the theory of evolution?”

That’s what any good science teacher would do. They would certainly discuss scientific facts that contradict the theory of evolution. That doesn’t mean Ron Paul promotes creationism.

Also, while Indonesia is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world, they are also tolerant of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism.

As you can see, FOX News plays the same game that you do, they imply lies about Obama the same way you imply lies about Ron Paul.

Last, but not least, the fact that you think I am partisan shows your prejudice.

Wrong again! I’ve voted for Republicans, and I may do so again, if the Republicans ever stop trying to use government to establish religion. Regardless of party,
I would not vote for Clinton, Obama or Edwards if:

1) if they voted to expand the deficit by supporting the Religious Right’s agenda of irresponsible tax cuts that go mainly to the wealthy. Like Ron Paul did, right?

2) if they introduced legislation to define human life as starting at conception– a bogus concept that lacks any science but comes ONLY from the religious right. Like Ron Paul did. Right?

3) if they promote teaching junk science in the schools, like the so-called “alternative views” to evolution. Like Ron Paul did. Right?

4) if they voted THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME with the Republican party line- a party line which overwhelmingly supported Bush’s failed agenda. Like Ron Paul did. Right?

5) So looks like Sand missed the points again:
I’m sure you Ron Paul supporters are every bit as offended at Fox News’ distortions and hypocrisy when they are aimed at liberals as you are the FEW TIMES when Fox is biased against Republicans, right, Sand? Lots of evidence of that? Or do Ron Paul followers only get upset when Fox is unfair and unbalanced to another Republican?

6) Also, I notice that in this clip, Ron Paul is quite sure that “the right to carry and bear arms should be interstate.” But Ron Paul is ALSO sure that the right to be secure in our persons and effects should NOT be interstate because Ron Paul supports bans on abortion at the Federal level! More Ron Paul hypocrisy, Sand?

(Even though Ron Paul also CONTRADICTS HIMSELF BY SAYING that bans on abortion should be ONLY made by the states.)

6) Ron Paul also says that the framers of the Constitution “never thought for a minute in those early days that you couldn’t carry your shotgun from state to state.”

But the framers of the Constitution also “never thought for a minute in those early days that a fetus is a person.” So how can Ron Paul contradict the founders by trying to enforce Pat Robertson’s fantasy that human life “begins” at conception?

——-
Any Democrat in the race is better than Ron Paul on ending the war AND protecting Constitutional reproductive freedoms. And they won’t bend the knee to the Religious Right.

LOL. I’m sure you Ron Paul supporters are every bit as offended at Fox News’ distortions and hypocrisy when they are aimed at liberals as you are the FEW TIMES when Fox is biased against Republicans, right?

Also, I notice that in this clip, Ron Paul is quite sure that “the right to carry and bear arms should be interstate.” But Ron Paul is ALSO sure that the right to be secure in our persons and effects should NOT be interstate because Ron Paul supports bans on abortion at the Federal level!

(Even though Ron Paul also CONTRADICTS HIMSELF BY SAYING that bans on abortion should be ONLY made by the states).

Ron Paul also says that the framers of the Constitution “never thought for a minute in those early days that you couldn’t carry your shotgun from state to state.”

But the framers of the Constitution also “never thought for a minute in those early days that a fetus is a person.” So how can Ron Paul contradict them to believe Pat Robertson’s fantasy that human life “begins” at conception?

Ron Paul supporters sure love this mess of inconsistency and hypocrisy.

Or maybe Ron Paul is not inconsistent. Apart from the Iraq war, Ron Paul seems pretty consistent– with the agenda of the RELIGIOUS RIGHT!
——-
Any Democrat in the race is better than Ron Paul on ending the war AND protecting Constitutional reproductive freedoms. And they won’t bend the knee to the Religious Right.

Uh, Sand, I know you have a lot of illusions about politics that I have had to prove you wrong about, but, ah, I don’t know how to say this politely, but…

RON PAUL IS A REPUBLICAN! LOL!

Sand “I suggest you study guilt-by-association fallacies.”

I suggest you study ACTUAL REALITY. Ron Paul is a REPUBLICAN! LOL!

Ron Paul is running for the nomination of REPUBLICAN PARTY! ROTFL!

Sand: “Ron Paul wants to offer people the option to opt out of Social Security.”

Yes, and that would be a position of… THE REPUBLICANS!

Sand: “If equating Ron Paul to the neoconservatives was meaningful, then Ron Paul would be for the war and the Patriot Act. But Ron Paul is not.”

Here comes Sand with another Straw Man argument. When did I equate Ron Paul with those peculiar Republican off-shoots, the neocon men? SAND FAILS AGAIN, because I never called Ron Paul a neocon men.

Ron Paul is a different type of con… er, conservative man.

Sand “Of course, the real neoconservatives are Hillary Clinton, Giuliani, Dick Cheney, and Bush.”

Typical Ron Paulist tactic. Lump together Ron Paul’s fellow FAILED REPUBLICANS with non-conservative non-Republican Clinton. Oh, yeah, and Sand offers ZERO evidence in support. SAND FAILS AGAIN!

Great post, Sand. You kinda maybe had a fact or two here. Your fact-to-word ratio is improving. Just so Sand can comprehend:

Ron Paul = REPUBLICAN
Hillary Clinton = DEMOCRAT

Got it now, Sand?

Until then, ANY DEMOCRAT IS BETTER than Ron Paul in
1) ending the war AND
2) preserving abortion rights AND
3) in protecting and strengthening Social Security instead of undercutting it.

Ron Paul wants to offer people the option to opt out of Social Security.

If equating Ron Paul to the neoconservatives was meaningful, then Ron Paul would be for the war and the Patriot Act. But Ron Paul is not.

Of course, the real neoconservatives are Hillary Clinton, Giuliani, Dick Cheney, and Bush.

We agree that the Republicans’ Iraq war has been an utter failure.

But we disagree that Social Security is a failure. Right-wingers have accused Social Security of failing every year the last 70+ years of its existence. Have right-wingers ever been right in predicting it to fail? NO!

Republicans have been wrong every year in predicting the failure Social Security, and Republicans will continue to be wrong.

Of course, as the party of big business, Republicans (including Ron Paul) are paid to grumble about programs that support working people- even popular, successful programs like Social Security.

–”You should be very afraid, this old man hasn’t a clue about disabled people, despite being a doctor!”– He knows very well about disabled people. He served during Vietnam for God’s sake. Please stop spewing misinformation about him. Being a congressman, he is very aware of the failure of social security funds and the impact if will have on the younger generation. Social security has been used as part of the regular budget meaning young people will have to pay for it, and we cannot handle both a failing war and a failing social security program at once. If anything, the other candidates will probably just raise the age requirement and lower the payments.

People with family and friends who are in dire need of their disability need to speak up LOUDLY and OFTEN on the Ron Paul websites! You should be very afraid, this old man hasn’t a clue about disabled people, despite being a doctor! There are only so many positions for wal-mart door greeter for disabled people, those genuinely in need is SS/disability can’t do much else. And it COULD be any of us, anytime. Please take a step back and think about this even if it doesn’t impact you immediately.

PEOPLE WHO ARE UNABLE TO WORK WILL NOT HAVE ANY MONEY. What then? He is opposed to state-assisted suicide… which would be the only way to avoid becoming homeless, for MANY of these people. No matter how young you are now, one day you, too WILL be elderly and in need of a social security program to take care of you. Pensions are weaker than ever before, and non-existant in many places today that they used to be commonplace. Please THINK.

The internet can be a force multiplier. Get the word out. Vote for Ron Paul!

Pass this tip along to fellow supporters. Thanks.

America needs Ron Paul more than ever, and everyone who supports Ron Paul loves him as he is the closest thing to family we have ever seen in government.

Ron Paul, for what is just, what is right, and what is our Nation’s root modus, the Constitution and Freedom and Liberty for All.

Think for yourself, question authority.

One of my favorite quotes about Dr. Paul, “You’re working for the most honest man in Congress.” That was John McCain speaking to Kent Snyder in 1988.

Ron Paul is a constitutionalist.

Ron has never voted to raise taxes.
Ron has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
Ron has never voted for the Iraq War.
Ron has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
Ron has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
Ron has never voted to raise congressional pay.
Ron has never taken a government-paid junket.

Ron voted against the Patriot Act.
Ron votes against regulating the Internet.
Ron voted against NAFTA and CAFTA.
Ron votes against the United Nations.
Ron votes against the welfare state.
Ron votes against reinstating a military draft.

Ron votes to preserve the constitution.
Ron votes to cut government spending.
Ron votes to lower healthcare costs.
Ron votes to end the war on drugs.
Ron votes to protect civil liberties.
Ron votes to secure our borders with real immigration reform.
Ron votes to eliminate tax funded abortions and to overturn Roe v Wade.
Ron votes to protect religious freedom.

I see Ron Paul has the last true hope for America.

I would bet that he doesn’t agree totally with Alex on all points, but understands his fears of the very real neocon/fascist movement that has been steadily preparing for the take over of this great country for decades.

All nations fall…think about it…ALL
not on my watch!
VOTE RON PAUL!
he’s the doctor on call…

Namaste

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God’s children, black men and white men, Jews and gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual,

“Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!”
by Dr. King

Free from overbearing taxation, Orwellian government, globalization…

The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. Together we can reclaim our rights!

Don’t let the media and the establishment continue to divide us through race, creed, color or “social status”. We ALL need to work together now to keep from fighting next to each other later. For if our course is not changed soon, sadly the tree of liberty will need refreshed.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
by Thomas Jefferson.

You represent hope for America, and for most, our last hope. We are perilously close to losing our great nation to apathy. How many more leaders can we afford who’s votes are for sale, who’s talking points are dictated in boardrooms, and who’s values have been compromised.

Ron, I know you can win this thing, and it will be nothing short of a revolution of freedom.

member of the Ron Paul Guard, Anchorage AK.

RESPONSE TO LINDA: You didn’t mention how many MORE AMERICAN soldiers will be killed IF WE STAY. Do you really want that on OUR hands?

Also, here are the dates for each primary election:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_primaries%2C_2008

Why?

Two things.

The Constitution

and

Ron Paul

If you believe you can achieve.

Maybe Fox is finally deciding to lift the blackout on this guy? I hope they lose all of the viewers over this! ABC, CNN, and all of the other horrible networks too!

And that reporter is HOT!

Dr. Ron Paul is the only major candidate not owned by military-industrial-complex, corporations, special interest, lobbyists, etc. Fix the system and vote Ron Paul. And tell everyone you know. Now is the time to set ourselves free.

Ron Paul places 1st or 2nd in every straw poll, debate, and active participation survey. Including this ABC debate!

Ron Paul is 1st on YouTube, Meetup, MySpace, Technorati, Alexa, Clickz, Google, etc. The old media is just too slow to realize what is happening.

Dr. Ron Paul has the most contributions from U.S. military personnel and veterans above all other candidates. So support the troops and vote Ron Paul!

Ron Paul is the candidate of the people and champion of the Constitution. He is the man of integrity and courage that America needs at this time.

Visit YouTube and search Ron Paul to learn more…

Join the Revolution — Vote Ron Paul!

Faux Nooz has done nothing but parrot for the warhawks since day one. Should he avoid going on Faux Nooz because he disagree’s with the lying liars on Faux who told us the war would be easy and cost about 6 billion, the rest being paid out of Iraq oil money? Alex Jones; he has an audience and gave him time when no one else would kind of like Martin Luther King being in Playboy when no other magazine would touch him. (Back when Amerikans could read and not just listen to sound bites.)

She asked stupid question after stupid question and you want us to send her thank you notes and cookies?!!? Why, because unlike the other talking heads on Faux she was mostly polite didn’t talk over him, shout him down or tell him to shut up? As it was she grew impatient with his direct answers because she needed short answers so her regular viewers could understand them.

Faux will begin running hit pieces soon enough. Murdoch will get in trouble if the truth is found emanating from the flagship propaganda network. Ratings or no ratings they can’t have Ron Paul speaking the truth out loud where the sheep can hear him, they might wake up and realize they want their liberty back.

Restore the Republic. Punish the oath breakers. Uphold the Constitution for the united states of America.

THG

A simple polite thank you email from those who appreciate her interivew I think will continue to have a positive effect.

Ron Paul has my vote.

Long live the Constitution. (It’s not just any ol’ piece of paper)

Julie Banderas / Big Story Weekend

yourwordlive@foxnews.com

and

yourcomments@foxnews.com

Here’s the address!

Julie Banderas / Big Story Weekend
c/o FOX News Channel
1211 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10036

Here’s a tin of cookies where you can upload a photo for the top of the tin for $35
http://www.chipndough.com/personalized_photo_gifts.html

I think it’s very dangerous to disregard the importance of Social Security. Social Security is national *insurance*, not a scam. It helps protect each of us from the difficulties of old age and/or unexpected disability. The program certainly could use a house cleaning, but letting young people opt-out is foolish, as is the current $90k cap. I believe it is a duty of all Americans, as equals under the law, to equally participate in this fundamental humanistic endeavor.

I am also not pro-life. Trying to determine where life begins and ends is like trying to find the edge of the world. We should just make some sort of compromise and be done with it. As the Candidate of Freedom, I would hope he agrees that it is not right to hoist one’s own set of beliefs about this matter on others.

These points aside, however, I am in full support of Ron Paul. There’s no one who comes close, on either side to aisle, to his character, core beliefs, and the truly hopeful direction he can bring to our nation.

Eventually Communist Vietnam did remove the Khmer Rouge regime from power in 1979 by indaving Cambodia.

Without the Vietnam War, the Khmer Roughe might not have ever found the chaos required for them to grow in power. This is exactly what is happening with Al Quaeda in Iraq.

In the meantime, we should be focusing on taking back *our* rights to declare war through the congress, to be secure in our papers and persons, to keep and bear arms, to speak freely, to keep our *national* guards guarding our *nation*, and to have our taxes go to our infrastructure and national debt rather than into the war coffers.

He’s got my vote!

The states are not required to hold Presidential elections at all, or to make any recommendation to the electors on what their votes should be.

Our problem is the *primary* system. We’ve allowed two major parties to create a quasi-government system that effectively limits our final choices at the ballot box to two. There is nothing in the Constitution about “primary” elections because *parties themselves* are not in the Constitution. In fact, George Washington warned us in his Farewell Address about the tyranny of political parties, and we would do well to heed that warning.

The problem with American politics is that americans keep getting bogged down with stupid questions like the above and forget about what is actually happening.

Although, if you elect another republican you may want to keep your guns handy.

Ron Paul: We Won’t be Fooled Again!

Fox News Memo: Ron Paul = Ratings. Don’t piss him off entirely to our network.

If only Congress was made up of people like Ron we wouldn’t still be dragging along like we are in Iraq.

-jcr

Amazing! Wow, it’s like the Network Media is almost catching up with the whistle blowers on the internet. (but not quite)

President Ron Paul – Restore the Republic – Ron Save America!

i loved the point he made along the lines of ‘the same people who say it will be a disaster to leave, aree the same people who said it wont be a disaster to go in’. i think its safe to say he will have my vote.

#ronpaul irc.freenode.net