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???????
??????? ???????? ?? ????????? ???????????, ??????? ? ????????? ???????, ??? ? ?????? ??? ?? ???????????. ??-??????, ???? ??????? ????????? ????????? “?? ????”. ???? ?? ???????? ??? ???????? ???????? ????????, ??? ????? ???? ?? ????????? ??????. ???????? ?????? ????? ????????? ? $200-$600, ??? ??????????? ???????, ??? ????????? ????????? ??????? ???? ? ???????????? ??????. ?? ??? ? ?????. ?????? ??????????? ???????-??????????? ????????? ?? ???????? ????. ??? ??????, ?? ??? ??????? ??????????? ??????????? ???? ? ????????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ???????? ????????

??-??????, ??? ???????? ???????. ??????? ? ????? ????, ??? ??????, ??? ???????????? ????? ????????????????? ???????? ?????, ???? ??????? ????? ?????! ??? ?????????? ?????? ???? ???????????? ?? ????? ? ??????????? ????????? ?? ??????????? ?????????? ?? ?????? ???????. ? ???? ?? ???? ? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???????, ???? ?? ??????, ?? ? ?????? ??? ???????? – ???? ?????????? ????? ????? ???? ????????? ??????????. ?????? ???????? ????? ??????? ?????????????? ???????? ??????? ? ????? ??????? ?????????: ???? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ???????????? – ??????????? ????????? ?? ????????????. ??????? ?? ?? ???????? ? ???, ??? ??????? ? ??????? ???????, ??? ??? ????. ? ?????? ? ?????? ? ??????! ????????? ???????? ??????? ?????????? ??????: ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ping (????????). ???????????, ?????????? ???????? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ???????? ???????? – ???? ????????? ?? ???????? ????? 10 ?????? – ??????? ?????????.
???????
??-??????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????????. ???? ? ??? ??? ????????????? ????? ?? ?????? cgi-???????? ? ????? ?????????? – ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????????. ????? ????? ???????? ???????? ??????????? ???????????? SSI. SSI ????????? ???????? ? ???? ???????? ?????????. ????????, ???????? ????? ???? ??????? ?? “??????? ?????”, “?????? ?????” ? ?????????? ??????. ??? ????? ??????, ????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ??????? – ?????????? ???????? ???(!) ????? ????? ??? ?????? ??????????? ???????.

?-???????, ??????????? ???????? ?????? – ????? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????. ????? ?? mail.ru – ??… ? ????? ???? ???????u ????? ??????? ????????? ????????????? ????????? ????????. ??????? ?????????? ????? ?????, ?????? ???????? ?????? ????????? ??? ??????.
???????
?-?????????, ???????-????????? ?????? ??????? ???????????? “????? ??????????” ????????: ?????? ???? ??????? ????, ?????????? ?? ???, ??????????? ??? ?????????? ??????. ????? ????, ?????????? ?? ?????????????? ??????, ????? ??? ??????????? ????????? ?????????, ??????????? ????????? ???????? ????????, ??????????? ????????? ?????????????? ????????????? ? ?????? ? shell (??????????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? FTP). ??? ??? ????? ?????? ? ????? ??????.

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]]> By: http://webera.cc http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-354594 http://webera.cc Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:33:32 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-354594 ??? ??? ??????????? ?????? ? ?????? http://webera.cc ??????????? ?????? ? ?????? ??????????? ?????? ????????? ?????? http://??????.?? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????????? ?????? ??????????? ?????? ? ?????? ????????? ??????????? ?????? ? ?????? ????????? ?????????????? ???????????? ?????? ??????????? ????? ????????? ?????? ??? ??? ??????????? ?????? ? ?????? http://webera.cc ??????????? ?????? ? ?????? ??????????? ?????? ????????? ?????? http://??????.?? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????????? ?????? ??????????? ?????? ? ?????? ????????? ??????????? ?????? ? ?????? ????????? ?????????????? ???????????? ?????? ??????????? ????? ????????? ??????

]]> By: einladungskarten kommunion http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-331042 einladungskarten kommunion Sun, 25 Sep 2011 17:53:14 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-331042 I intended to write you the bit of word just to thank you over again for your extraordinary thoughts you've shown here I intended to write you the bit of word just to thank you over again for your extraordinary thoughts you’ve shown here

]]> By: Robbie Bonomi http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-296766 Robbie Bonomi Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:28:25 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-296766 One thing is that when you are searching for a student loan you may find that you will need a co-signer. There are many circumstances where this is true because you will find that you do not use a past credit history so the loan company will require you have someone cosign the financing for you. Thanks for your post. One thing is that when you are searching for a student loan you may find that you will need a co-signer. There are many circumstances where this is true because you will find that you do not use a past credit history so the loan company will require you have someone cosign the financing for you. Thanks for your post.

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]]> By: laura15 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-226500 laura15 Thu, 05 May 2011 16:37:26 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-226500 Ciao, ho visitato il tuo blog e mi piace molto. Complimenti davvero!!! Ciao, ho visitato il tuo blog e mi piace molto. Complimenti davvero!!!

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]]> By: dirte http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-124863 dirte Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:31:19 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-124863 I am with eaglescout that one can find better deals out there. Though if CTC certificates are such a good deal then where is the none bias proof. Believe me, everyone can tell if you're pushing the stuff. Anyway, there is nothing wrong with some good old fashioned link bait. I am with eaglescout that one can find better deals out there. Though if CTC certificates are such a good deal then where is the none bias proof. Believe me, everyone can tell if you’re pushing the stuff.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with some good old fashioned link bait.

]]> By: beavis http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-124824 beavis Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:47:01 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-124824 I just dropped in but this seems interesting. So this is an MLM opportunity where the product is actually useful? I just dropped in but this seems interesting. So this is an MLM opportunity where the product is actually useful?

]]> By: zach http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-123756 zach Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:24:23 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-123756 I have to agree with some of these comments. CTCV is a business. Just because it is online does not make it a scam. CTCV offers not only the opportunity to start your own business, but it also has real value because of there products. Sure, there are businesses out there that have worthless products. But that is just my opinion. Who knows, someone else could really want it. Just because you didnt happen to like it doesnt mean other people will feel the same way. Also, some people want to get into a business and make millions right away. It doesnt work like that. You do have to know your market and learn how to advertise to your target market in order for your product to reach people that want what you have. I didnt make it big right away...it took me 4 years of learning to see results. But it was worth it, because now I can share my information with those in my team and I can watch them be sucesful as well. I have to agree with some of these comments. CTCV is a business. Just because it is online does not make it a scam. CTCV offers not only the opportunity to start your own business, but it also has real value because of there products. Sure, there are businesses out there that have worthless products. But that is just my opinion. Who knows, someone else could really want it. Just because you didnt happen to like it doesnt mean other people will feel the same way. Also, some people want to get into a business and make millions right away. It doesnt work like that. You do have to know your market and learn how to advertise to your target market in order for your product to reach people that want what you have. I didnt make it big right away…it took me 4 years of learning to see results. But it was worth it, because now I can share my information with those in my team and I can watch them be sucesful as well.

]]> By: Rich http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-97286 Rich Tue, 12 May 2009 20:24:31 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-97286 Paper cash has an illusion of value. Depending on the belief and underlying structure will dictate the perceived value. My college BA has a perceived value. Even though you can learn everything on your own, or free online, I spent over $55K for the package deal the University offered. Likewise, Cruise to Cash Vacations has a perceived value, real discounts, and a powerful training program. The last person buying into this program will still be able to use all of the tools (whatever you think of them). If the buyer does not see the value, they simply don't buy it. But continue on and happily take your Google dollars for the Adwords ads that power your hate site. That's my perception anyways. Paper cash has an illusion of value. Depending on the belief and underlying structure will dictate the perceived value.

My college BA has a perceived value. Even though you can learn everything on your own, or free online, I spent over $55K for the package deal the University offered.

Likewise, Cruise to Cash Vacations has a perceived value, real discounts, and a powerful training program. The last person buying into this program will still be able to use all of the tools (whatever you think of them).

If the buyer does not see the value, they simply don’t buy it.

But continue on and happily take your Google dollars for the Adwords ads that power your hate site. That’s my perception anyways.

]]> By: Angela http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-94827 Angela Sun, 03 May 2009 11:24:14 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-94827 A Pyramid scheme is when there is no product/service involved. People are being paid to recruit others.I looked at CTC and they have a fantastic products. I know people who have used their travel vouchers and had great time. A Pyramid scheme is when there is no product/service involved. People are being paid to recruit others.I looked at CTC and they have a fantastic products. I know people who have used their travel vouchers and had great time.

]]> By: eaglescout http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-41353 eaglescout Thu, 06 Nov 2008 05:12:41 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-41353 <p>Hi T. Bell,</p> <p>“I am posting this here, not because I think you would ever admit to being wrong. After all, you are the harbinger of truth and you can’t let your ego take a hit like that.”</p> <p>My ego is quite fragile, but I do make corrections when I am wrong.</p> <p>“Also, I wanted you to see, if that is possible, some of your erroneous ideas about business.”</p> <p>It’s is possible that we do not disagree very much on what business is.</p> <p>“DEFINITION OF A PYRAMID: A broad-bottomed structure and small at the top with all lines flow up to the pinnacle.</p> <p>Leaving off the ’scheme’ part, because just about anything can be called a ’scheme,’ such as selling a car or getting people to sign up for a credit card, a pyramid is exactly as described above.”</p> <p>Yes, anything can be a scheme. I am taking advantage of the connotations of fraudulence and deception, since scheme is also defined as:</p> <p>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)<br /> an underhand plot; intrigue.<br /> to devise as a scheme; plan; plot; contrive.</p> <p>American Heritage Dictionary<br /> A secret or devious plan; a plot. See Synonyms at plan.<br /> To make plans, especially secret or devious ones.</p> <p>Online Etymology Dictionary<br /> Unfavorable overtones (selfish, devious) began to creep in early 18c. The verb, in the sense of “devise a scheme,” was first recorded 1767.</p> <p><strong>Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of Law</strong><br /> a crafty, unethical, or fraudulent project scheme to defraud investors</p> <p>“It is a structure that the entire world is built around.<br /> For instance, Expedia is a pyramid. All travel that is booked through that engine pays a lot of people, but ultimately, there are a very few fat cats who are making most of the money.</p> <p>The military is a pyramid. All lines flow to the top. Ever heard of the Commander in Chief?”</p> <p>Absolutely. Those are all pyramids. But are they fraudulent pyramids?</p> <p>“Walmart is a pyramid. [excised for brevity]<br /> It is basic business and all typical business follows that structure.<br /> And as in a typical pyramid, if they don’t get new and repeat customers, they will die. Ever wonder why car companies keep coming out with new models?”</p> <p>That’s absolutely right.</p> <p>“Or cell phone companies keep coming out with new cells phones every 3 months?”</p> <p>Yes, I agree with your rhetorical question.</p> <p>“So, the accusation you level against pyramids is exactly true, but most of the world’s businesses are built like that.”</p> <p>No. I’m making a distinction between fraudulent schemes (pyramid schemes) that require unreasonable upfront payments to join and those businesses that do not.</p> <p>“Instead of Madison Avenue or Wall Street or the CEO ’scheme’ being pumped up with cash as in a traditional business, or bank, or Government, Cruise to Cash Vacations chooses to operate differently.”</p> <p>I don’t think all legal businesses or investments are honest.</p> <p>Quite the opposite. I opposed the 2008 Financial Bailout of Wall Street. But just because someone else can get away with it, doesn’t mean that it is right to do.</p> <p>“We choose to pay ordinary individuals to distribute and market travel opportunities so they can enjoy the products themselves and also profit from them.”</p> <p>If you want them to enjoy the products, why do you charge so much for something they can get elsewhere?</p> <p>And if the distributors don’t want the products for themselves, why do you insist on subsidies?</p> <p>“This is one of the reasons governments and businesses and ignorant people like you fight so hard to impugn the motives of network marketers”</p> <p>No, it’s got more to do with false advertising and deception.<br /> I think some governments are quite hypocritical. They shouldn’t arrest individuals like Andy Bowdoin for operating a ponzi-like scheme. They should arrest him for damages directly related to deception.</p> <p>“[…]ignorant people like you fight so hard to impugn the motives of network marketers, because [you] can’t control the money and [you] get a lot of [your] profits taken by ordinary hard-working individuals starting their own enterprise and selling superior products.</p> <p>Actually, I like it when people start their own enterprises, as long as the income is not based primarily on deceit.</p> <p>“Or maybe they (you?) failed at enterprise themselves and have to slam others so they can feel better?”</p> <p>That certainly could be a possibility, but in my case I simply hate when people are scammed and taken advantage of.</p> <p>“Now about the Travel Certificates:The travel certificate business has been around for many years, and you might be surprised to know it is actually the hotels, resorts, cruises and condos that make the certificates available to clients like us so they can have their rooms filled.”</p> <p>There’s nothing wrong with that.</p> <p>“They LOVE us distributing these […] And they do not intend anyone to distribute them for free because they don’t do that themselves. That’s why we have our members get paid to distribute that as one of our products.”</p> <p>But the coupons are not worth the exorbitant prices you charge for them and neither are the licenses. The demand for travel coupons is so low that the only way you can sell them is by false advertising and deception. The marked-up prices do not correspond to any real value because there is no demand. In order to sell the coupons you must create the illusion that the demand is unreasonably greater than it actually is. But because you’ve set the prices so high, you’ve created an artificial saturation point that does not correspond to your claims.</p> <p>In other words, the problem isn’t selling the coupons. The problem is that you are advertising value that doesn’t exist, and charging for it.</p> <p>"Sometimes, a certificate is a GREAT deal and sometimes it is not. […] But, one example, like what you lifted from Priceline, can always be found on anything. In that case, just buy it at Priceline, but beware, YOU have just participated in a Pyramid! Shhhhh, I won’t tell anyone!"</p> <p>Sure, Priceline is a pyramid, but not in the same sense. (For reference see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation" rel="nofollow">Equivocation</a>; same word, different meaning).</p> <p>“It also appears that your information is VERY outdated. The certificates are like the door prize to this business, but the real value is found in the fact that 9 times out of 10 our member’s Travel Center is cheaper than all four of the major online booking engines. We have demonstrated this in live webinars many times now to audiences checking into the business.”</p> <p>I’m willing to take this into account. Can we find any credible, independent sources to corroborate this?</p> <p>“Not only that, it is the Concierge Service provided by our concierge team that helps a traveler have the optimal experience.”</p> <p>OK, let’s assume I don’t use the Cruise to Cash Vacations concierge service and book my trip independently? What exactly am I missing out on?</p> <p>“This service is also worth a lot of money.”<br /> What do they do for you? besides booking your trip?</p> <p>“But, unlike a Pyramid, that money is not paid to a large company to flow up to the fat cats at the top;”</p> <p>Sure it is. You charge 477, 977, or 1,477 upfront, and people still have to pay more to go on the vacation.</p> <p>And why do you even charge different prices? Don’t tell me it’s the cost of the training e-Books and videos because those are worthless as well.</p> <p>If two people sell the same amount of coupons why does one get paid more on commissions than the other, simply because they paid more to start?</p> <p>“[…]It is paid out to our distributors.”</p> <p>Not really. Most of it does go to the top of the line.</p> <p>“[…]We are a private Concierge service that helps a person with ALL of their travel needs with VIP service, perks, and extras that have been demonstrated over and over again.”</p> <p>What are those perks and what is their value?<br /> You talk about “travel needs”, VIP service, perks.<br /> I really don’t see where they have been demonstrated, at all.<br /> They could be anything, including more marketing material.</p> <p>“We are not a Pyramid travel service where only the owners make the money paid for memberships”</p> <p>Correct. Instead, you are a Pyramid travel service where the owners make most of the money by selling part of the debt of the next person down the line, and promoting nonexistent value.</p> <p>“[…] we pay our members very well to refer others to our membership.”</p> <p>The same is the case with organized crime. That doesn’t make it better.</p> <p>“Some choose to distribute the Private Membership to others and make an extra income. Some do not.”</p> <p>Some people choose not to take the vacations either, if not most.</p> <p>“And that very thing alone also means it is impossible for CTCV to be a pyramid.”</p> <p>I don’t think so. See the definition below.</p> <p>Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of Law<br /> Pyramid:<br /> […]<br /> 3 : a pyramid scheme<br /> Pyramid scheme:<br /> of, relating to, or being an illegal scheme in which participants give money or other valuables in exchange for the opportunity to receive payment for recruiting others to participate in the scheme.</p> <p>“Because, people pass each other up all the time, there is no clean line flowing up to a point, it is more like a tree with branches going out all over the world.”</p> <p>Oh, so it’s not a pyramid. It’s an upside down pyramid.</p> <p>“Now, if you want to take on the largest ponzi scheme in the world […] then take on the Social Security system.”</p> <p>Wait, so the Social Security system is a ponzi scheme and Cruise To Cash isn’t a pyramid scheme?</p> <p>“if you want to take on the largest ponzi scheme in the world so that your time is well-spent and you can TRULY be a hero, a Truth-teller, and a protector of the liberty of millions of people […]”</p> <p>You assume that I want to be a hero, and that I’m not a truth-teller. You also seem to assume that that I like the Social Security system. I think I should be able to opt out of it; but the intent of the Social Security system is to protect people, not to make money.</p> <p>“I am sure, with your keen sense of “truth” that you are in no way a part of that system […]”</p> <p>What does “truth” have to do with the ability to opt out of the Social Security system?</p> <p>“because, my friend, it is a ponzi scheme more dangerous and ruinous than any on planet earth.”</p> <p>It could be considered a Ponzi scheme, but it’s doubtful that it is the most dangerous.</p> <p>You on the other hand, willingly participate in a scheme that’s specifically designed to deceive people and steal their money.</p> <p>“Meanwhile, please leave honest good people alone who LOVE their Private Membership within Cruise to Cash Vacations and love telling others about it.”</p> <p>I’m sorry, I don’t know any.</p> <p>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scheme</p> Hi T. Bell,

“I am posting this here, not because I think you would ever admit to being wrong. After all, you are the harbinger of truth and you can’t let your ego take a hit like that.”

My ego is quite fragile, but I do make corrections when I am wrong.

“Also, I wanted you to see, if that is possible, some of your erroneous ideas about business.”

It’s is possible that we do not disagree very much on what business is.

“DEFINITION OF A PYRAMID: A broad-bottomed structure and small at the top with all lines flow up to the pinnacle.

Leaving off the ’scheme’ part, because just about anything can be called a ’scheme,’ such as selling a car or getting people to sign up for a credit card, a pyramid is exactly as described above.”

Yes, anything can be a scheme. I am taking advantage of the connotations of fraudulence and deception, since scheme is also defined as:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
an underhand plot; intrigue.
to devise as a scheme; plan; plot; contrive.

American Heritage Dictionary
A secret or devious plan; a plot. See Synonyms at plan.
To make plans, especially secret or devious ones.

Online Etymology Dictionary
Unfavorable overtones (selfish, devious) began to creep in early 18c. The verb, in the sense of “devise a scheme,” was first recorded 1767.

Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of Law
a crafty, unethical, or fraudulent project scheme to defraud investors

“It is a structure that the entire world is built around.
For instance, Expedia is a pyramid. All travel that is booked through that engine pays a lot of people, but ultimately, there are a very few fat cats who are making most of the money.

The military is a pyramid. All lines flow to the top. Ever heard of the Commander in Chief?”

Absolutely. Those are all pyramids. But are they fraudulent pyramids?

“Walmart is a pyramid. [excised for brevity]
It is basic business and all typical business follows that structure.
And as in a typical pyramid, if they don’t get new and repeat customers, they will die. Ever wonder why car companies keep coming out with new models?”

That’s absolutely right.

“Or cell phone companies keep coming out with new cells phones every 3 months?”

Yes, I agree with your rhetorical question.

“So, the accusation you level against pyramids is exactly true, but most of the world’s businesses are built like that.”

No. I’m making a distinction between fraudulent schemes (pyramid schemes) that require unreasonable upfront payments to join and those businesses that do not.

“Instead of Madison Avenue or Wall Street or the CEO ’scheme’ being pumped up with cash as in a traditional business, or bank, or Government, Cruise to Cash Vacations chooses to operate differently.”

I don’t think all legal businesses or investments are honest.

Quite the opposite. I opposed the 2008 Financial Bailout of Wall Street. But just because someone else can get away with it, doesn’t mean that it is right to do.

“We choose to pay ordinary individuals to distribute and market travel opportunities so they can enjoy the products themselves and also profit from them.”

If you want them to enjoy the products, why do you charge so much for something they can get elsewhere?

And if the distributors don’t want the products for themselves, why do you insist on subsidies?

“This is one of the reasons governments and businesses and ignorant people like you fight so hard to impugn the motives of network marketers”

No, it’s got more to do with false advertising and deception.
I think some governments are quite hypocritical. They shouldn’t arrest individuals like Andy Bowdoin for operating a ponzi-like scheme. They should arrest him for damages directly related to deception.

“[…]ignorant people like you fight so hard to impugn the motives of network marketers, because [you] can’t control the money and [you] get a lot of [your] profits taken by ordinary hard-working individuals starting their own enterprise and selling superior products.

Actually, I like it when people start their own enterprises, as long as the income is not based primarily on deceit.

“Or maybe they (you?) failed at enterprise themselves and have to slam others so they can feel better?”

That certainly could be a possibility, but in my case I simply hate when people are scammed and taken advantage of.

“Now about the Travel Certificates:The travel certificate business has been around for many years, and you might be surprised to know it is actually the hotels, resorts, cruises and condos that make the certificates available to clients like us so they can have their rooms filled.”

There’s nothing wrong with that.

“They LOVE us distributing these […] And they do not intend anyone to distribute them for free because they don’t do that themselves. That’s why we have our members get paid to distribute that as one of our products.”

But the coupons are not worth the exorbitant prices you charge for them and neither are the licenses. The demand for travel coupons is so low that the only way you can sell them is by false advertising and deception. The marked-up prices do not correspond to any real value because there is no demand. In order to sell the coupons you must create the illusion that the demand is unreasonably greater than it actually is. But because you’ve set the prices so high, you’ve created an artificial saturation point that does not correspond to your claims.

In other words, the problem isn’t selling the coupons. The problem is that you are advertising value that doesn’t exist, and charging for it.

“Sometimes, a certificate is a GREAT deal and sometimes it is not. […] But, one example, like what you lifted from Priceline, can always be found on anything. In that case, just buy it at Priceline, but beware, YOU have just participated in a Pyramid! Shhhhh, I won’t tell anyone!”

Sure, Priceline is a pyramid, but not in the same sense. (For reference see Equivocation; same word, different meaning).

“It also appears that your information is VERY outdated. The certificates are like the door prize to this business, but the real value is found in the fact that 9 times out of 10 our member’s Travel Center is cheaper than all four of the major online booking engines. We have demonstrated this in live webinars many times now to audiences checking into the business.”

I’m willing to take this into account. Can we find any credible, independent sources to corroborate this?

“Not only that, it is the Concierge Service provided by our concierge team that helps a traveler have the optimal experience.”

OK, let’s assume I don’t use the Cruise to Cash Vacations concierge service and book my trip independently? What exactly am I missing out on?

“This service is also worth a lot of money.”
What do they do for you? besides booking your trip?

“But, unlike a Pyramid, that money is not paid to a large company to flow up to the fat cats at the top;”

Sure it is. You charge 477, 977, or 1,477 upfront, and people still have to pay more to go on the vacation.

And why do you even charge different prices? Don’t tell me it’s the cost of the training e-Books and videos because those are worthless as well.

If two people sell the same amount of coupons why does one get paid more on commissions than the other, simply because they paid more to start?

“[…]It is paid out to our distributors.”

Not really. Most of it does go to the top of the line.

“[…]We are a private Concierge service that helps a person with ALL of their travel needs with VIP service, perks, and extras that have been demonstrated over and over again.”

What are those perks and what is their value?
You talk about “travel needs”, VIP service, perks.
I really don’t see where they have been demonstrated, at all.
They could be anything, including more marketing material.

“We are not a Pyramid travel service where only the owners make the money paid for memberships”

Correct. Instead, you are a Pyramid travel service where the owners make most of the money by selling part of the debt of the next person down the line, and promoting nonexistent value.

“[…] we pay our members very well to refer others to our membership.”

The same is the case with organized crime. That doesn’t make it better.

“Some choose to distribute the Private Membership to others and make an extra income. Some do not.”

Some people choose not to take the vacations either, if not most.

“And that very thing alone also means it is impossible for CTCV to be a pyramid.”

I don’t think so. See the definition below.

Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of Law
Pyramid:
[…]
3 : a pyramid scheme
Pyramid scheme:
of, relating to, or being an illegal scheme in which participants give money or other valuables in exchange for the opportunity to receive payment for recruiting others to participate in the scheme.

“Because, people pass each other up all the time, there is no clean line flowing up to a point, it is more like a tree with branches going out all over the world.”

Oh, so it’s not a pyramid. It’s an upside down pyramid.

“Now, if you want to take on the largest ponzi scheme in the world […] then take on the Social Security system.”

Wait, so the Social Security system is a ponzi scheme and Cruise To Cash isn’t a pyramid scheme?

“if you want to take on the largest ponzi scheme in the world so that your time is well-spent and you can TRULY be a hero, a Truth-teller, and a protector of the liberty of millions of people […]”

You assume that I want to be a hero, and that I’m not a truth-teller. You also seem to assume that that I like the Social Security system. I think I should be able to opt out of it; but the intent of the Social Security system is to protect people, not to make money.

“I am sure, with your keen sense of “truth” that you are in no way a part of that system […]”

What does “truth” have to do with the ability to opt out of the Social Security system?

“because, my friend, it is a ponzi scheme more dangerous and ruinous than any on planet earth.”

It could be considered a Ponzi scheme, but it’s doubtful that it is the most dangerous.

You on the other hand, willingly participate in a scheme that’s specifically designed to deceive people and steal their money.

“Meanwhile, please leave honest good people alone who LOVE their Private Membership within Cruise to Cash Vacations and love telling others about it.”

I’m sorry, I don’t know any.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scheme

]]> By: T. Bell http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-41297 T. Bell Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:07:26 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-41297 I am posting this here, not because I think you would ever admit to being wrong. After all, you are the harbinger of truth and you can’t let your ego take a hit like that. I am posting this here for reasonable, logical and people who are tired of being accused of being involved in fraud when they are participating in time-tested legitimate opportunities that our freedoms allow for us. Also, I wanted you to see, if that is possible, some of your erroneous ideas about business. DEFINITION OF A PYRAMID: A broad-bottomed structure and small at the top with all lines flow up to the pinnacle. Leaving off the “scheme” part, because just about anything can be called a “scheme,” such as selling a car or getting people to sign up for a credit card, a pyramid is exactly as described above. It is a structure that the entire world is built around. For instance, Expedia is a pyramid. All travel that is booked through that engine pays a lot of people, but ultimately, there are a very few fat cats who are making most of the money. The military is a pyramid. All lines flow to the top. Ever heard of the Commander in Chief? Walmart is a pyramid. Four of the top 20 wealthiest people in the world are the Walton family who sit at the top of the Walmart Pyramid. All lines flow to the top. It is basic business and all typical business follows that structure. And as in a typical pyramid, if they don’t get new and repeat customers, they will die. Ever wonder why car companies keep coming out with new models? Or cell phone companies keep coming out with new cells phones every 3 months? So, the accusation you level against pyramids is exactly true, but most of the world’s businesses are built like that. But not CTCV. A business like CTC Vacations is a far cry from a pyramid. Instead of Madison Avenue or Wall Street or the CEO “scheme” being pumped up with cash as in a traditional business, or bank, or Government, Cruise to Cash Vacations chooses to operate differently. We choose to pay ordinary individuals to distribute and market travel opportunities so they can enjoy the products themselves and also profit from them. This is one of the reasons governments and businesses and ignorant people like you fight so hard to impugn the motives of network marketers, because they can’t control the money and they get a lot of their profits taken by ordinary hard-working individuals starting their own enterprise and selling superior products. Or maybe they (you?) failed at enterprise themselves and have to slam others so they can feel better? Now about the Travel Certificates:The travel certificate business has been around for many years, and you might be surprised to know it is actually the hotels, resorts, cruises and condos that make the certificates available to clients like us so they can have their rooms filled. They LOVE us distributing these so their rooms are filled, and we also get the advantage of having a real, tangible advantage in travel. And they do not intend anyone to distribute them for free because they don’t do that themselves. That’s why we have our members get paid to distribute that as one of our products. Sometimes, a certificate is a GREAT deal and sometimes it is not. As in anything, you should shop around and compare. But, one example, like what you lifted from Priceline, can always be found on anything. In that case, just buy it at Priceline, but beware, YOU have just participated in a Pyramid! Shhhhh, I won’t tell anyone! It also appears that your information is VERY outdated. The certificates are like the door prize to this business, but the real value is found in the fact that 9 times out of 10 our member’s Travel Center is cheaper than all four of the major online booking engines. We have demonstrated this in live webinars many times now to audiences checking into the business. Not only that, it is the Concierge Service provided by our concierge team that helps a traveler have the optimal experience. This service is also worth a lot of money. But, unlike a Pyramid, that money is not paid to a large company to flow up to the fat cats at the top; it is paid out to our distributors. We are, in essence, a Private Membership Travel Club with over 2 Million Resorts and Condos at rock bottom prices, no timeshares and no blackouts. We are a private Concierge service that helps a person with ALL of their travel needs with VIP service, perks, and extras that have been demonstrated over and over again. But, here is the difference. We are not a Pyramid travel service where only the owners make the money paid for memberships, but the wealth is spread around to all other members who introduce others into the club. So, rather than a small top with all lines of money flowing there as in a typical private membership club, or in a typical travel business like Expedia, or in Walmart, or in your Bank, we pay our members very well to refer others to our membership. Some choose to distribute the Private Membership to others and make an extra income. Some do not. And that very thing alone also means it is impossible for CTCV to be a pyramid. Because, people pass each other up all the time, there is no clean line flowing up to a point, it is more like a tree with branches going out all over the world. Now, if you want to take on the largest ponzi scheme in the world so that your time is well-spent and you can TRULY be a hero, a Truth-teller, and a protector of the liberty of millions of people, then take on the Social Security system. I am sure, with your keen sense of “truth” that you are in no way a part of that system because, my friend, it is a ponzi scheme more dangerous and ruinous than any on planet earth. Meanwhile, please leave honest good people alone who LOVE their Private Membership within Cruise to Cash Vacations and love telling others about it. I am posting this here, not because I think you would ever admit to being wrong. After all, you are the harbinger of truth and you can’t let your ego take a hit like that.
I am posting this here for reasonable, logical and people who are tired of being accused of being involved in fraud when they are participating in time-tested legitimate opportunities that our freedoms allow for us.

Also, I wanted you to see, if that is possible, some of your erroneous ideas about business.

DEFINITION OF A PYRAMID: A broad-bottomed structure and small at the top with all lines flow up to the pinnacle.

Leaving off the “scheme” part, because just about anything can be called a “scheme,” such as selling a car or getting people to sign up for a credit card, a pyramid is exactly as described above.

It is a structure that the entire world is built around.
For instance, Expedia is a pyramid. All travel that is booked through that engine pays a lot of people, but ultimately, there are a very few fat cats who are making most of the money.

The military is a pyramid. All lines flow to the top. Ever heard of the Commander in Chief?

Walmart is a pyramid. Four of the top 20 wealthiest people in the world are the Walton family who sit at the top of the Walmart Pyramid. All lines flow to the top.
It is basic business and all typical business follows that structure.
And as in a typical pyramid, if they don’t get new and repeat customers, they will die. Ever wonder why car companies keep coming out with new models?
Or cell phone companies keep coming out with new cells phones every 3 months?
So, the accusation you level against pyramids is exactly true, but most of the world’s businesses are built like that.

But not CTCV. A business like CTC Vacations is a far cry from a pyramid.

Instead of Madison Avenue or Wall Street or the CEO “scheme” being pumped up with cash as in a traditional business, or bank, or Government, Cruise to Cash Vacations chooses to operate differently.

We choose to pay ordinary individuals to distribute and market travel opportunities so they can enjoy the products themselves and also profit from them.
This is one of the reasons governments and businesses and ignorant people like you fight so hard to impugn the motives of network marketers, because they can’t control the money and they get a lot of their profits taken by ordinary hard-working individuals starting their own enterprise and selling superior products. Or maybe they (you?) failed at enterprise themselves and have to slam others so they can feel better?

Now about the Travel Certificates:The travel certificate business has been around for many years, and you might be surprised to know it is actually the hotels, resorts, cruises and condos that make the certificates available to clients like us so they can have their rooms filled.

They LOVE us distributing these so their rooms are filled, and we also get the advantage of having a real, tangible advantage in travel. And they do not intend anyone to distribute them for free because they don’t do that themselves. That’s why we have our members get paid to distribute that as one of our products.
Sometimes, a certificate is a GREAT deal and sometimes it is not. As in anything, you should shop around and compare. But, one example, like what you lifted from Priceline, can always be found on anything. In that case, just buy it at Priceline, but beware, YOU have just participated in a Pyramid! Shhhhh, I won’t tell anyone!

It also appears that your information is VERY outdated. The certificates are like the door prize to this business, but the real value is found in the fact that 9 times out of 10 our member’s Travel Center is cheaper than all four of the major online booking engines. We have demonstrated this in live webinars many times now to audiences checking into the business.

Not only that, it is the Concierge Service provided by our concierge team that helps a traveler have the optimal experience. This service is also worth a lot of money.
But, unlike a Pyramid, that money is not paid to a large company to flow up to the fat cats at the top; it is paid out to our distributors.

We are, in essence, a Private Membership Travel Club with over 2 Million Resorts and Condos at rock bottom prices, no timeshares and no blackouts. We are a private Concierge service that helps a person with ALL of their travel needs with VIP service, perks, and extras that have been demonstrated over and over again.
But, here is the difference.
We are not a Pyramid travel service where only the owners make the money paid for memberships, but the wealth is spread around to all other members who introduce others into the club. So, rather than a small top with all lines of money flowing there as in a typical private membership club, or in a typical travel business like Expedia, or in Walmart, or in your Bank, we pay our members very well to refer others to our membership.

Some choose to distribute the Private Membership to others and make an extra income. Some do not. And that very thing alone also means it is impossible for CTCV to be a pyramid. Because, people pass each other up all the time, there is no clean line flowing up to a point, it is more like a tree with branches going out all over the world.

Now, if you want to take on the largest ponzi scheme in the world so that your time is well-spent and you can TRULY be a hero, a Truth-teller, and a protector of the liberty of millions of people, then take on the Social Security system. I am sure, with your keen sense of “truth” that you are in no way a part of that system because, my friend, it is a ponzi scheme more dangerous and ruinous than any on planet earth.

Meanwhile, please leave honest good people alone who LOVE their Private Membership within Cruise to Cash Vacations and love telling others about it.

]]> By: P. Scheme http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-41285 P. Scheme Thu, 06 Nov 2008 01:27:06 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-41285 This is a test to see if I submit a comment here, will it be published. I would like to comment about some of your claims. This is a test to see if I submit a comment here, will it be published. I would like to comment about some of your claims.

]]> By: GroobLi, another complex scam » The Truth @ The Spin Factor http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/comment-page-1/#comment-28788 GroobLi, another complex scam » The Truth @ The Spin Factor Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:21:33 +0000 http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2008/09/23/cruise-to-cash-only-one-of-thousands-of-ponzi-schemes/#comment-28788 [...] They are advertised by 24-7pressrelease.com (a front for disseminating misinformation), which means that they are related to the Cruise To Cash Ponzi. [...] [...] They are advertised by 24-7pressrelease.com (a front for disseminating misinformation), which means that they are related to the Cruise To Cash Ponzi. [...]

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